Private View Key - A unique feature for SAFEX

#1

Well nobody knows what the future brings in case of crypto taxes,irs etc. but with safex we are covered .Safex is way ahead ! Why ? because of the genius Safex Private View Key !!! As Richard pointed - This is particularly helpful if you have an accountant who needs to keep track of your incoming transactions for tax purposes.
New taxes and laws No Problem here is my income i am a seller on SAFEX you can see my income if i wanted to and you can tax me . What do i sell and to whom not of your business. I am safe and secure with my Private View Key . Plus we can share our balance details with any trusted parties we want to for the sake of transparency.
Taxes may never catch crypto but if they do safex has a great solution.

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#2

If you are a seller the private view key is useless for taxation, you need to provide invoice/receipts and use the tools you would normally use.

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#3

@eddie995it we can add those tools by developers who have already built them: we simply adapt the structure in the blockchain for the taxation jurisdiction

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#4

Sounds nice if someday there will be a wider recognition. Smoother for sure

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#5

Just to add.

With the likes of RingCT and newer privacy features on cryptonote, you’ll only ever see incoming but not outgoing.

So you wouldn’t be able to track balances but you’ll definitely see when a payment comes IN.

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#6

@Athan How does this work Athan?

I’m hoping @dandabek may provide a mechanism whereby the Safex Wallet would provide me with all said transactions (i.e. Sales, Purchases, SFX airdrops, etc.) with all exact dates and times of said transactions that I could simply give to my accountant for tax purposes here in the United States. As a consequence of my initial crypto investments, which I later sold all to buy Safe Exchange Coin, my accountant charged me $1,575 American Dollars, and I’ve actually lost money on my crypto. I’m not tax savy and may end up having to liquidate all of SFT (over 1 million) if @dandabek doesn’t provide a mechanism for folks like me in the United States.
I don’t plan to ever engage in SFT or SFX activity because of the tax consequences, which I do not know how to deal with. This is because my accountant has told me that unless I can provide him a simple statement (i.e. something like a 1040), with all taxable events clearly laid out, I should expect that fee of $1,575 dollars to be the norm, and even possibly increase.
I don’t live in Serbia where there are no tax consequences!

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#7

If you have a normal business in the US, do you expect the money in your wallet to do your accounts? No. You keep a ledger. Why would you expect digital money to do your bookkeeping?

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#8

If I had a business in the US, or for any type of investments with a Stock Broker or Financial Services Company, they will send me year end statements of all profit and losses for determining my cost basis for tax consequences. Here in the United States, the Federal Government shut down Crypto Exchanges (i.e. Coinbase) until they agreed to support this effort so that their clients can properly pay their taxes.
I’ve asked @dandabek and @Rich.bate if they could find a way to do this and I thought, probably incorrectly, that the Safex Wallet could add such a feature.
A while back when I inquired with Coss.io Exchange, I was told that they would be providing these type of statements to US investors so that they could properly and responsibly pay their taxes.
Everyone on this Forum wants to talk about “locking and unlocking SFT yearly” to prevent Ghost Wallets from receiving SFX unless they keep alive their wallets:

Even @dandabek has weighed in on this conversation:

My concern is a very legitimate concern. How come @dandabek and other leaders on this forum are not interested in what I have to say? When I sold all I had to invest in Safex it was because of the incredible support by @dandabek, @Rich.bate and the great Safex Community. But they’ve let me down. Nobody is interested in addressing my significant concerns regarding the best way to deal with all the tax implications of owning SFT, airdrops of SFX and ecommerce on the Safex Marketplace.

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#9

Tax is very unique and specific to each individual and country. It’s hard to cover all bases and satisfy everyone’s requirements.

At a minimum, your wallet will have incoming/outgoing history. Just like the existing v7 wallet does with the omni coins. This will mean you’ll have a timestamp of when the transaction came in/out and you can cross-ref it with the historical price at that point. This is what 99% of people in crypto do now, if they’re concerned about tax implications.

At the end of the day, none of us are accountants here. We can’t advise you on the best way you should handle your tax exposure. How do other blockchain wallets handle this? Typically, the user would use their wallet incoming/outgoing history as a benchmark.

If you’re expecting a function to do it all for you then it gets a lot more complex. You’ll be wanting the wallet to take a snapshot of the exact market price for the coin at the point the coins enter your wallet.

We’re still responsible for our own good bookkeeping - regardless of what tools or services we use. Just because it’s crypto it doesnt mean it’s any different.

But as said, at a minimum, you’ll have a wallet history to work with. No doubt there will be other functions added with time which expands on this.

Also there are tax concenquences in Serbia.

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#10

Not sure where we’ve let you down dude, and I don’t see a big barrier to getting info about transaction history. It already does that.

Until now the only thing much can be done with tokens is hold them. So exchange where I bought them should be enough record of the tokens.

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#11

Thanks for responding Rich. I’ve tried the whole cross-reference thing. Back when I originally purchased Bitcoin to buy Safex, there was no clear exact transaction time for me to determine what the cost was exactly when I purchased the Bitcoin, then sold the Bitcoin, then purchased the Safe Exchange Coin. Plus, due to the activity of the miners I could never really tell whe the transaction times actually occurred. I tried to cross-reference the Omni data with the historical Bitcoin data and my cost bases never came out correct. So I hired an accountant to do it for me and they couldn’t figure it out either. So all the money I paid,the $1,575 american dollars was for their research.

The above response from @dandabek is not what I was hoping for. His commitment to the project and to the Safex Community led me to believe that concerns such as mine would be something he would want to address. I wasn’t asking that somehow @dandabek or the Safex Wallet does my taxes. Here’s a statement made by Coinbase in an article entitled, "Crypto and Bitcoin Taxes in the US: 2019 Edition: https://www.coinbase.com/bitcoin-taxes#doyouowe

"Coinbase customers

Coinbase customers can generate reports with all buys, sells, sends, and receives of all crypto associated with their Coinbase and Coinbase Pro accounts. These reports show what we think your cost basis could be for all purchases and proceeds for all sales, inclusive of Coinbase fees…"

Coinbase clearly states that they don’t offer tax advice, or do anyone’s taxes for them, which is not what I am asking for. But also clearly is that they provide reports of all transactions within Coinbase that do the following: “These reports show what we think your cost basis could be for all purchases and proceeds for all sales…”

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#12

Safex Cash is a crypto currency, it should be up to the holder how they account for that. I would think, just like any currency you would keep your own ledger of your transactions for your taxation purposes. I’m not understanding why the Safex protocol - the marketplace and blockchain, would need to do this for you? If you run a business and use USD, does the US government provide you with a statement of your revenue and expenses, or are you meant to do that yourself?

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#13

How about taking a bit of responsibility for your own actions? You could quite easily have written down the prices at the time you conducted the transactions.

So, you didn’t? Well, go back to the exchanges where you purchased your crypto and look at your purchase history. Or you could subsequently look at the time stamps on the transactions and lookup what the historical crypto prices were at the time.

How can you not know what your BTC cost you? You have $x in fiat and it buys yBTC. That is the cost. Simple.

Now, learn from your past mistakes… for any future transactions, do your bookkeeping immediately if you need such info for tax purposes, taking note of pertinent details.

Safex is not MYOB. :man_shrugging:

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#14

I just want to throw in that there are already projects who focus on crypto tax managing, for instance cryptotax.io

In the future more of those will be emerging and they will hopefully be more elaborate. Right now this is all in foot steps. And when the time is right then SAFEX can get integrated into one of these as well, maybe.

@jcasale I won’t let you down. I am also interested in an easy and correct form to get this done. I will rather pay taxes than hide in McAfee’s boat. I think what is on SAFEX side will be easy and nice exports of transactions as you wish. The legal aspect has to be handled by everyone himself. We should not burden SAFEX to implement tax parameters for 100 countries.

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#15

Mate, the transaction history is built in the wallet so you will have the dates and amounts.
All you have to do is check the price for that day on CoinMarketCap and voilĂ , you are done.
It also sounds like we will get to choose when to claim out incentives. So if you only did this once a month then you would only have to check the price history on CMC for 12 dates total.

If you really need help I or others could show you how to do on a spreadsheet.

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#16

Yes, I don’t want to burden SAFEX either with tax parameters for 100 countries. I did try Cointracker.io and did spend nmerous hours trying to determine my original costs for all of my crypto transactions, but the math just wasn’t coming out correctly. I also couldn’t match up the exact times of said transactions - there is the purchase time and then the time when the miners do their thing. All-in-all it is very complex for me.
What I was only asking for is essentially some type of a printout I could generate from Safex.io or the Safex Wallet that would clearly show the exact times and the exact cost or earning of any transactions within the Safex Wallet and the Safex Marketplace. As @aussiesloth suggested, I did go back to the Bitstamp and Bittrex Exchanges and Omni and did print out all of my purchase and sales activities there. However, I still couldn’t make the math work out correctly. I did look up historical prices and all that.
But thank you @cryptooli for your understanding!

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#17

Concerning the claimed incentives I would do exactly this

When I claim on 10th August, I take the BTC/SFX closing price as well as the USD/BTC closing price of the day to determine the USD worth of my claimed SFX. This way I would only have an effort of 12 easy calculations per year. (SFX worth in USD = SFX amount * BTC/SFX price * USD/BTC price)

I agree with you, if you do lots of trading it’s almost impossible to track all prices right. The report of claimed SFX will be much easier than earnings of day trading.

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#18

not sure about the cost side of things but giving you the time of and list of transactions it is already able to do that.

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#19

It’s also worth to mention that there are never exactly defined prices for SFX, SFT or BTC because the prices are varying on different exchanges.

Personally, I will pursue the strategy as to pull my prices (candle closes) from the one exchange I prefer to use for buying and selling (for instance Coindeal). This gives me a clear documentation of prices, dates, and trades - everything pulled from the same exchange. Of course, I advise everyone to speak to an accountant even when you know what you are doing as crypto-taxes are a “completely” new territory.

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#20

Ok, thank you @dandabek

I see that it does have a list of transactions in the History, but I don’t see how from this list I can determine my cost basis or any profit and earnings that would have tax consequences - I think I need a course in how to understand these transaction statements.

These statements are similar to what I was able to download from Omni, and I still couldn’t figure out the exact times and dollar amounts for the transactions that were listed so that I could determine my cost basis. I tried uploading those statements to Cointracker.io, I tried downloading historical Bitcoin data, etc., and still couldn’t make it work. I feel ashamed that I invested in cryptocurrency and don’t know these basic things!

I will try to find someone locally to me who can assist me. In the meantime, I honestly do appreciate your passion for this project and all the hard work that you and others like @Rich.bate and people like @cryptooli and @znffal who have offered to help me!!!

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