Dividend questions


#1

For clarification, dividends are based on the amount of safex locked into wallets? So if alot of Safex are on exchanges, won’t that increase the dividend payout for the wallet holders?

And if the dividends are based on Safex locked into wallets, what is the lock in period? The whole month? The instant the dividends are paid? Or somewhere in between?

If the latter, there will always be massive movement on dividend payout day. In my humble opinion, a month long lockin period for dividends will increase the value of the token because the available supply on the exchanges will be reduced.


#2
  1. Only locked in Safex will indeed be eligible to receive dividends. (less locked in, more dividends for the loyalists. See https://tools.safexnews.net/calculators.php)

  2. This is something which, correct me if I am wrong, the Balkaneum team still have to decide upon or at least need to communicate to its token holders.

  3. I am pretty sure the Balkaneum team is aware of this and will/have base(d) their decision upon this. (to my preference: Continuous transferring of dividends would be more preferable)


#3

All good questions.

  1. confirmed that you must lock in to retrieve dividends; no lock in; no dividend.

  2. imo it should be one day at least; and there will be a technical reason for the time duration; TBD

  3. imo we should not play with lockin times to play with pricing; its just not fair; it should be relatively simple to lock/unlock earn and move on if you want… (would love to hear technical or reasons besides playing with supply to require long term lockins)


#4

Regarding the way how dividends are recorded and paid, it comes down imo to what is feasible in the technical sense.

The most precise and fair way would be to track/record dividends per each confirmed trade on the marketplace. This would mean that once a trade is confirmed, an appropriate dividend amount from that trade’s fee is allocated in the records to each wallet address having locked Safex coins at that moment.

This doesn’t necessarily mean the dividends need to be actually paid in real time. They can be paid in whatever periods, but based on records that were kept per each trade.

So if I keep locked coins for 15 days, and then sell them to another person who then locks them for another 15 days, when the payday comes we would both receive our share of dividends on wallet addressees that had coins locked at the respective time of each trade that happened during those 30 days.

Regardless of the above solution, it is ofc possible to have a minimum period for the locked coins to “mature” (lets say 24h) before they are taken into account for allocating dividends.


#5

BUT is it a certain amount of dividends spread across those coins locked in. i.e. less overall coin locked in means more per coin that are locked in.

OR is the dividends worked out on the total (2^31-1) safex coins and those coins locked in get an amount per coin. IE the same amount whether 1/2 of all coins locked in or only 1/10 locked in.


#6

It should be a certain amount of dividends spread across locked coins, meaning the less coins are locked, the more dividends are received per coin.

The second option you mentioned makes very little sense. If you calculate dividends per coin based on the entire supply and then distribute dividends using that fixed per coin rate only to the locked coins, you will end up with a surplus of dividends (dividends you calculated on the non-locked part of the supply that you cannot distribute).


#7

It is spread only to the locked coins; if you don’t lock them then we can’t account for those coins; they will change hands too often the system won’t be so agile to detect every single change in the holding of the coin. At least we are not focusing to add this kind of agility.

Another thing we considered was the Lightning Network style because it is a parallel network; that parallel network has its own consensus problems, and they are staggering problems.

So we are going with everything on chain and we believe also that it won’t be an issue for scaling because even visa is only doing 1700 transactions per second.

So for a payment network we will be fine; only thing that evolves is need for more hard drive space; but of course that is a short term problem: Hard drive space grows every two years. With the advancements in SSD we will have more than enough room to keep a growing blockchain.


#8

Yepp those dividends will never get paid; unless we implemented some system that “back pays” holders/non lockers.


#9

Yep I was confirming that it was not done that way.

In theory you could do that and the left over goes back into the project or something like that. But its not being done that way so no need to speculate.


#10

Concerning the point about the lock in time, payout rate, a 24h period would make sense to me (or whatever the team thinks makes technically the most sense). So, if you want to receive dividends for 1 day, the coins have to be locked in the last 24h straight.

Since it is also about the dividend topic let me throw in my additional proposal here:

@dandabek would it make sense to you to integrate a “keep locked” function for the wallet? For instance every 6 to 12 months, you would have to confirm your coins stay locked. Otherwise they would unlock themselves. This idea should avoid “ghost wallets” of owners who lost their keys to receive “ghost dividends” later on. This may not be a big issue soon, but it could add up and make big amounts of safex cash get lost in 5 years + because lost wallets still receive big amounts of dividends.

Greetings, Oliver


#11

Never thought about this solution, but I like it, would not make the time period to small but 12 Month makes sense…

But if locking has a fee would keep locking has a fee as well?

Would the Safex Cash disappearing this way impacting the Supply in a negative way or is that not really a concern?


#12

We have tons of decimals for Safex Cash, 10 to be exact. Also, the “keep alive” feature could get annoying, I have keys I have not used or looked at in 2 years. And I prefer it this way. you see?

We also uncap the money supply at the end of 20 years to distribute 3 safex cash per block. So there will be some market forces to consider at that time.


#13

I see. Then it won’t be such a problem and the price will rise accordingly with coins “lost”. Maybe a bit off topic but why did you chose to increase the decimals from 4 to 10?


#14

@dandabek @Boris_S

Why I think the dividends payout interval should be a very short time frame:


#15

can pleas eprovided a tl;dr version?


#17

I don’t think they should have small intervals. The reason is, every dividend needs to be distributed through blockchain.
If they implement distribution to be every day, it will be too much transactions on blockchain related to dividends.


#18

I think interval should be the one that will do the less blockchain congestion balanced to wait not too much to receive them
simulations can be done for sure